During my vegan daze, T. Colin Campbell’s China Study was endlessly bandied about by the vegan gurus as PROOF that a 100% plant-based diet was the ONE TRUE healthy way to eat.
I started writing against veganism in January of 1999 when I finally came to my senses and realized that human beings are opportunistic omnivores who require animal fats and protein to thrive (duh!), but I never did take the time to seriously pick apart Campbell’s research.
By that point in my disillusionment with the many lying gurus who promoted veganism to gullible followers, T. Colin’s whole trip just seemed absurdly ridiculous and not worth digging into.
Today, almost a dozen years later, I’m several months into a low-carb, zero grain diet, including lots of animal fat and protein that has me feeling great at age 62.
So it goes without saying that I regret the years and the energy I used and wasted promoting a plant-based diet as being a healthy way to eat.
Well, as Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. remarks so often in his wonderful Slaughterhouse-Five… So it goes.
Anyway, thanks to Richard Nikoley’s informative and fun-to-read Free the Animal blog, I became aware today of a rich and fact-filled dissection that shines helpful illumination on what I’ve always felt were selective and prejudicial interpretations presented to promote veganism in T. Colin Campbell’s China Study.
If you’re a struggling vegan or vegetarian who has accepted as gospel the work of T. Colin Campbell, you must click here right now to read Denise Minger’s outstanding expose of the China Study, a work that in my opinion does not at all well serve health seeking men and women.
IMPORTANT UPDATE:
I’m updating this entry on Saturday morning, 17 July 2010.
First, T. Colin Campbell’s very lame reply to Denise Minger’s initial 9,000 word analysis of his China Study can be found here, though there’s nothing in it of real substance that I could detect.
Second, on 16 July 2010 Minger posted a “must read” response to Campbell’s lame reply here.
I hope you’ll point struggling vegans and as well as anyone interested in nutrition and health to Denise Minger’s informative and entertaining website at http://rawfoodsos.com.
I absolutely, 100 percent disagree with this viewpoint, but I’m just going to give a fair and balanced opinion here, and not weigh in too much on my personal values…
I am now a vegetarian–I stopped eating red meat gradually…it wasn’t even for the animals–it was because I knew how I felt after I consumed it, and it certainly didn’t feel like a health benefit. Chicken and fish–in proper portions was okay. I could take it or leave it. I certainly don’t believe red has any notable health benefits compared to the latter two though.
I eat mostly vegetables, nuts, gluten-free grains, and fruit now (fruit, with it’s sugars, for better or worse!). And I can confidently say that I’ve never felt better in my life than I do now, and meat isn’t a part of my diet. I used to have severe depression, was getting sick all of the time (I mean all the time…I had two or three flus in one year…a terribly weak immune system) and my arthritis was TERRIBLE. I was about to be put on an extremely heavy medication, that would require me to give myself shots twice a week. I’m shocked the doctor never even thought to refer me to a nutritionist–and I could cry at how happy I am that I discovered nutrition on my own. Now I don’t even take meds some days and feel fine.
Now–I’ve stopped eating animal foods, but I’ve also made a lot of other dietary changes as well (an emphasis on the anti-inflammatory, lots of vegetables when I didn’t usually touch them before, very few processed foods). So I’m not going to lie and say, this was all because I quit meat!! HOWEVER, I totally think it’s a valid possibility. We cannot ignore the fact that I lead a very happy balanced life now, and there’s no meat involved whatsoever.
I do believe, that if any meat should be consumed, it should at least be organic and grass-fed, which would be a much more animal-friendly, responsible approach, and also way healthier, because there wouldn’t be the hormones you are ingesting to worry about…As for fish, which I will say, from my experience, ARE healthy (but are still creatures that want to live–they do struggle to get off the fishhooks for a reason, pain or no pain), there is so much pollution in our oceans now (coursing through the fishes bodies, which you are in turn ingesting), and so many different breeds are becoming endangered because of over-fishing, I’m not sure it’s the wisest dietary option in the long-run. People should, if they choose to consume it, eat common breeds of fish like tuna or salmon. I haven’t even mentioned the mercury levels, because everyone knows about that. We pick our own poisons.
Again, red meat in my experience (not sure of everyone else’s, since every individual body has different nutritional needs), has always left me feeling terrible after consuming it–just very heavy and sluggish, unlike plant foods, which tend to leave me feeling fresh and energized. I’ve found that the foods that are good for me tend to do the latter and the ones that are bad for me, vice versa. I rarely see someone finish a burger and say, “Wow, I feel great, lets do some jumping jacks!” Unless they were starved. But as modern humans, we don’t have to run around hunting for our food like hungry hyenas anymore, and I do believe we have the intelligence to choose to make the sacrifice of meat, if anything, to keep ourselves from being hypocrites, and I won’t even get into the controversial stuff.
Finally: this article emphasizes the positives of meat so much–but really fails to mention how important the SERVING SIZE of such a food is–back to the hungry hyena–he can eat a steak and feel great, but the majority of us are not hunting and starving all the time. We lead pretty relaxed lives, with much lower energy needs…I believe that when selecting any food in this day and age, there is a certain responsibility to the individual that comes with their power of choice. The “health properties,” of meat, fictional or non-fictional, are really outweighed by their negatives when people consume a lot more meat than what is necessary for human function, and lets face it, most are. A serving size is usually around the size of a deck of cards…I don’t think I’ve EVER seen anyone take that small of a serving, or at least not without a second helping. Meat is a potent food–a lot of it isn’t required to meet the average joe’s dietary needs. And I think it is to the point where people are damaging their health, and also a lot more animals than necessary in the process. There at least needs to be a proper balance, instead of so much emphasis on the two extremes; the negatives of veganism vs. the negatives of incorporating meat in the diet. A lot of unnecessary damage is being done by people who are being careless about their portion sizes, and many a time it’s after they hear from somewhere that the food they are consuming is healthful. It’s sad but, I think there needs to be some nutritional guidelines involved in stories like this too, because many have no idea what they are doing to their bodies without maintaining the proper balance of the food groups, and when they read things like this, they take it to heart and tend to consume more of it, especially if it’s a food they love. Meat advice needs to be handled with a lot more delicacy in my opinion.
Thanks
Sorry I rambled, I tend to do that. Hopefully I’ll hear back!
-Lyza
Lyza, I think it’s important that each of us be as non-judgmental as possible of what others eat and how others live.
With that said, I also think “scientists” like T. Colin Campbell have a moral obligation to TRUTH that should not be ignored for personal reasons or money-making agendas. That statement holds true for non-scientists as well, of course.
If you’ll take the time to read all of Denise Minger’s website, especially the parts about what she eats, you’ll see that her diet is predominantly raw and mainly vegetarian with some fish and eggs. This is a healthy diet that’s followed by quite a few ex-vegans I’ve known over the years who recognized that most human beings just plain can’t live in health on a 100% plant-based diet after their own health started to fail from not eating any animal fats or proteins.
The kind of scary thing about vegan diets lies with the fact that many people really do feel the best they’ve ever felt in their lives when they first get on it. In my experience of communicating with vegans and ex-vegans since 1993, this feeling lasts — depending on the individual’s genetic make-up — for months to years. But, inevitably, the good health and high energy starts to fade as the inevitable nutritional deficiencies set in.
At this point, sadly, many vegans live in denial because they have essentially committed totally to veganism and consequently can’t (or won’t) face the reality of human beings requiring whole foods from both plant and animal kingdoms to live in health. This fact is painfully obvious at vegan conventions when one sees the terribly thin and muscle-wasted men and women who have let the idea of “vegan purity” overcome their common sense and what they see in the mirror when they brush their teeth. If they have any teeth left… I’ve known two vegans during my years in the natural health circus who lost all their teeth because they remained vegan far too long.
I could go on endlessly about all this but instead will point you to the extensive collection of articles and research on my website about vegan dangers. Click here to see a list with descriptions of all those articles.
Finally, Lyza, I encourage you (and everyone else reading this) to keep your eyes open and to monitor your health.
I’ve learned since 1993 that you can NOT trust nutritional gurus with your health because all of them have an agenda of one kind or another.
Instead, trust the true expert on your body — and that’s you.
Listen to your body, keep track of how you feel and look, and when you start dreaming about eating eggs, eat an egg!
Our bodies are always “talking” to us, and if we’re smart and quiet enough to listen to them, we naturally eat what is best for us.
And, in my experience, that changes over time as well as current living circumstances, emotional needs, physical issues, philosophical considerations, questions of morality, and mental altitudes about food. What works well for us for a few months may be not so good for us six months down the line.
Perhaps that’s at least partially why some people thrive for years on veganism while others fall apart in months… why some people thrive living on steaks and chops and bacon and eggs while others start gagging at the thought of such a dietary.
The whole nutritional deal is a wonderfully complex mystery as far as I’m concerned and one that must be confronted with an open mind as well as a willingness to experiment with a wide variety of approaches when seeking TRUTH.
I’ve learned that the TRUTH for one person is often not the TRUTH for someone else.
And it’s wrong to ever suggest differently.
Chet
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sensible, well-written article
Something I find rarely mentioned in terms of meat consumption and people’s various bodily responses to it is, what sort of diet is the cattle industry, e.g., feeding their subjects (cows, chickens, pigs, you get it). Cuz as we all know, in the interests of greater production and revenues, this-gimmick-and-that have been employed to get animals to maturity faster, etc., etc. SO. What kind of diet, for instance, is today’s cattle industry being fed, and couldn’t THAT be contributing to some people’s bodily responses to their eating, say, red meat these days…?
This is my thought: Can we really have a fair discussion about the responses people have in their consumption of meats and leave out the question of how those ‘meats’ are being raised anymore.
It is extremely hard to afford grass-fed beef — this being the natural diet of cows, of cattle. So most red-meat eaters have probably been eating beef raised very differently than they would be in the natural. Could this be why red-meat consumption has come to receive such a bad name in our day. It’s this kind of question that often gets left out of a discussion like this one.
Hi Chet
Calling vegan advocates liars? Isn’t that a little harsh, personal, and assuming?
I read Denise Minger’s info. As far as i could tell, she cites one possible anomaly to Campbell’s findings.
As for his reply, which i also read, he did not seem evasive or disrespectful. He did cite several doctors who reversed severe cardiovascular disease in patients. So he backs epidemiological studies with clinical observation.
Is there any published research showing that high fat meat based diet reverses atherosclerosis the way a 80/10/10 diet does?
To be fair, some doctors cited by Campbell advocate a vegan approach whereas others advocate a plant based diet with minimal low fat meat, fish, or dairy allowed. I appreciate that you had bad past experience with the raw vegan diet.
I might add that Colin Campbell started out as an advocate of the American meat based diet. So, like you, he has been there, done that, and seen the light, but from a different direction.
Could it be that like you he has come by his conclusions honestly, based on experience, searching, and finding answers, even ones that were uncomfortable?
Peace and Health,
Paul
Paul, no, calling the vegan gurus liars isn’t harsh at all since I personally know several of them who eat yogurt, eggs, and other animal foods in private while promoting a 100% vegan diet to their loyal (and gullible) followers.
And, no, I do NOT consider T. Colin Campbell to be an honest man or a “researcher” one can trust. You’d say the same thing if you actually bothered to read and understand Denise Minger’s work.
Chet
Hi Chet
Is my reply to your reply being censored? No disrespect, just curious.
Paul
Paul, there was no reply to my reply, so, no, nothing you wrote was censored.
Chet
Thanks Chet. Sorry if there was an implication of otherwise. It would have been an unfair assumption. Let me make an observation that applies to everyone: vegan, anti-vegan, all people, including me. Personal truth/reality is a perception. We notice and accept facts that validate and perpetuate our personal truth/reality and ignore or reject facts that don’t. When we are unaware of how we construct our personal truth/reality we mistake it for the ultimate truth and real Reality. Perhaps in this life the latter can only be an approximate construct at best. To get even that far we need to acknowledge our personal truth/reality but also question it. I find people who are absolutely convinced that they have the ultimate truth are farthest from it because they have sacrificed questioning and seeking for certainty. We all yearn for certainty in an uncertain world, but this kind of cerrtainty is an illusion.
As you say, there are vegan leaders that are hypocrites. Others are sincere but can’t walk the talk because of social pressure, psychological problems, or mistakes on the diet. Does it then follow that all vegan leaders are liars or unsuccessful? I aspire to be a raw vegan but do sometimes binge on animal foods. Does that make me a liar? I cave to intense social pressure to conform. It puzzles me why people are so offended by my choices when I do not judge them or insist that they eat as I do. You perform a needed service by pointing out the adverse effects of some vegan diets. Movements (of all diets) acknowledge successes but dismiss reports of failures. A pity, we can from failures. I too have observed adverse effects on rv diet, even experienced them. I made many mistakes, paid for them, and learned.
If I understand, the crux of Denise Minger’s criticism is the possibleTuoli anomaly. I say “possible” because there was the Masai anomaly before. The meat and dairy eating Masai were by all markers assumed to be heart healthy; an exception that disproved the rule. Then Pritikin wrote that a doctor examined the arteries of Masai accident victims and found them to be just as damaged as those of Americans. The Masai were asymptomatic because their arteries had a wider circumference on account of their greater physical activity. Are the Masai noted for exceptional longevity?
The China Study was only a small part of Colin Campbell’s book. He cited earlier epidemiological studies as well. He cited clinical observations of doctors (Ornish, McDougall, Barnard) who reversed serious cardiovascular disease on low fat plant based diet (note, not always vegan). Later Blue Zone studies seem to back up his findings. He notes that Dr. Roy Swank had success treating MS patients on a similar diet. Nowhere in his book does he say you have to be vegan to be healthy, but neither does he condemn it. Is there any published
peer review research done on the high meat, high fat diet that gets the same good results as the 80/10/10 diet for heart disease? Campbell may be criticsized for some aspects of his work, but too much independent research seems to support it.
Being fond of meat, cheese, and eggs, I would love it if you were right; never mind that we can’t feed anywhere near 7 billion people on such a diet. When I was 7 years old I (in 1950) I could have lived solely on raw berries, fruit, and vegetables. I wouldn’t eat meat, cheese, or eggs inspite of intense pressure to do so. Nobody then told me then that a raw vegan diet was healthy. These natural foods were limited in supply so i found a perverted substitute in cake, cookies, and candy. To balance these, much later i grew to like and became addicted to meat, cheese, and eggs. I took up bodybuilding and chucked the carbs for protein. My muscles didn’t grow, fat did. I suffered from chronic exhaustion, brain fog, depression, halitosis, acne. I also developed a powerful craving for carbohydrates of the strongest kind, which i resisted for some time. In later years when I returned to the high protein/high fat diet I developed arthritis, tooth problems, and at night i felt like I was suffocating and an elephant was sitting on my chest.
When i went raw vegan my symptoms eased up. But I did make many mistakes on that diet and could not implement it long term. Even now i have much to learn. I do acknowledge that the rv diet needs considerable care and some supplementation. Why do i say that meat, cheese, and eggs are an acquired taste and addictive, and not essential nutrients, at least for me? First, i use them to numb my feelings (unsresolved PTSD), Second, they aggravate my health problems instead of easing or healing them, Third, I can’t eat even moderate amounts of them without going on a binge, like an alcoholic or a smoker with their addictions. But when i eat raw fruit I have no problem stopping. Fourth, as a young child i did not have an innate liking for them, in fact found them repulsive.
I am not a “true believer.” I read Dr. Bass’s study of adverse effects of raw vegan diet on three generations and found it useful. I look forward to reading your comments on adverse effects of rv diet with interest. I wish you well on your quest for ever greater health.
Paul
Paul, thank you for your detailed comments. Everything I know or have to say about raw vegan diets can be found in the articles on this page:
http://chetday.com/vegetarianarticles.htm
At this point in my life, I’m fine with people eating whatever they want to eat. I’m no longer a crusader for this or that diet… this or that meditation protocol… or this or that anything.
With that said, because I appreciate honesty and since I consider many of the vegan “leaders” disingenuous at best and lying hypocrites at worst, I still tend to get my hackles up on occasion.
Doing that, of course, is a pointless waste of energy.
My current theory after seriously studying diets and how they impact people and various human diseases and problems since 1993 is that the human body makes remarkable changes (often for the best) when it receives foods very different from what it’s used to receiving — and that would include receiving no foods at all by water fasting for a period of time.
This theory provides a possible explanation for all the anecdotal reports about healing of the same disease on 1) a strict vegan diet; 2) a strict raw meat and animal fat diet; 3) a juice diet; 4) a paleo diet; 5) a no foods whatsoever diet; 6) and so on with a list practically as long as the New York Times best-selling diet book list.
The theory also supports my current conclusion that there are no perfect diets ideal for everyone and that each of us must experiment and listen to our bodies to determine what foods make us feel the best.
That’s all I have time to write this morning, Paul, so I’ll close by wishing you all success without whatever you eat and however you choose to live. Good luck to you.
Chet
Thanks Chet. Your reaction to hypocracy and blind dogmatism is understandable. Your theory may be onto something. With any diet it’s good to do non-invasive medical evaluations periodicly. As they say, “Check and verify.” I will be sure to read your articles.
Paul
not sure why you focus so much on vegans/vegetarians. the overwhelming majority of americans are processed food eaters and pure plant eaters make up what? 1-5% of the population? raw vegans are probably less than 1%.
if 99% of car accidents happen because of alcohol or text messaging would it make sense then to launch a campaign against the 1% of people who get into accidents for other reasons?
i’m sure there are “gurus” who claim to be vegan but lie about it.
but there are even more doctors who smoke, drug companies that sell pills for profit (and make BILLIONS) while telling us they’re safe, dairy companies that say their cows are happy and healthy, the FDA that says our food supply is safe when it’s not, etc. etc.
corporations that tell us how to stay healthy or which foods are safe to eat are liars also. but you are heavily focused and strangely obsessed with this tiny population of vegans who don’t make nearly as much money or have the sway or power that big industries such as the drug companies, health care industry, meat, dairy, junk food, corn industries have.
when you can show us hospital rooms filled vegans rather than heart attack victims, stroke patients, diabetics then maybe i’ll start worrying about vegan “gurus”. but as of now all those health problems are caused by the Standard American Diet, not by people chomping on celery sticks and drinking hemp smoothies.
Vegan guru liars, medical establishment liars, big pharm liars, big food industry liars, big warmongering politician liars… you’re right. They all belong in jail for killing so many people to make money.
Fascinating! We began purchasing whole steer from the local farm last year, and it’s working out really well for us. We found a great website with lots of great dishes like this meat recipe to keep us going.
So you spend your life telling people it’s stupid to be vegan and that the China Study is a lie? Bluntly, I have seen corpse-eaters come up with ANY excuse to kill an innocent creature with a mother and father. The evidence is all here, it’s all clear, and it’s SO simple.
As for the cruel ‘grass-fed’ ‘family-farm’ lie, that’s just made for kind people like myself who are addicted to blood, flesh, tendons, veins, fat, cow secretions, hen periods and bee vomit to the point that they WON’T give it up and they think that because the label says free-range, the animals they murdered were happy.
Please stop advertising a cruel, ignorant, and selfish way to live one’s life.
Instead of ranting like a B12 deficient maniac whose mind is more than half gone, why don’t you try refuting Denise Minger’s dissection of the deeply flawed China Study?
Denying that human beings are omnivores who need whole foods from both plant and animal kingdoms to thrive in health reveals a total understanding of the nature of homosapiens.
Please, go eat a rare steak with over easy organic eggs on the side and get your B12 levels up to a point where you can comment on a blog without drooling and raving vegan nonsense.
You just hate being proven wrong, I take B12 once a day for your information. You claim that ‘humans are omnivores’ is nothing short of outrageously and hilariously WRONG.
Our teeth are used primarily for grinding and chewing- we always grind and chew our food that way. Real carnivores and omnivores like wolves and bears do not chew their food. They also eat RAW, BLOODY meat that they chased, caught and killed with their BARE teeth and claws. Our intestinal tract is very long and complex, whilst geniune carnivores and omnivores have short and smooth intestines to quickly push through decaying flesh. We have carbohydrate-digesting enzymes in our saliva, which carnivores and omnivores lack. Ous stomach acid is 20 times weaker than that of a carnivore or omnivore, so to get rid of the bacteria in meat we have to cook it.
Also, to prove beyond ANY doubt that humans are 100 percent herbivores, get a baby human and put it in a crip with 2 things- an apple and a rabbit. If the child plays with the apple and EATS the bunny, send me an email that humans are carnivores. If it eats both, then humans are omnivores.
Obviously, eating the bodies of dead animals is for lazy people who think it’s healthier than vegetables because you get TRACE amounts of nutrients from flesh. Even B12 is not reliably found in animal flesh- IT IS MADE BY BACTERIA THAT LIVE IN THE SOIL. My B12 is PERFECTLY fine, thank you very much.
If you still think being vegan somehow ISN’T healthier than not eating dead bodies, then my mother was vegan while she was pregnant with me. She was very unhealthy, but she also ate very little, and it’s just common sense to eat an ample and varied VEGAN diet during pregnancy.
And just because you say you’re perfectly healthy ON THE WEB, WHERE EVERYONE CAN LIE, doesn’t mean I’m SO naive as to actually fall for YOUR LAME story.
Lilia, you’re not proving anything with your latest shrill comment. You’re merely repeating the same old error-ridden arguments used by vegans for over 100 years now. Unfortunately, none of your arguments have held up to scientific scrutiny.
Anyway, my dear, I encourage you to eat whatever you want to eat and to grant that same courtesy to others. When the inevitable deep deficiencies experienced by every honest 100% vegan I’ve known since 1993 hit you and start ruining your health, you can always visit this page on my web site for help:
http://chetday.com/vegetarianarticles.htm
Until then, it’s painfully obvious that you’re locked in the typical vegan diet dream land, and I just hope you enjoy it until the nutritional nightmares start.
Please tell that to the other million or so vegans in america, as well as the 54% who are obese.
Lilia, with each new comment I grow more and more concerned about the state of your thinking processes. Your inability to substantiate your arguments does not serve your vegan cause at all well. Indeed, it shows you’re merely parroting the same old shinola that the vegan gurus have been peddling for over a century now… gurus who are making a LOT of money peddling that misinformation, too, I might add while in far too many instances they’re privately eating animal foods like cheese and yogurt and eggs on the side.
With my concern for your rational thinking out of the way, here’s another resource for you to read should you want to learn more about the experience of hundreds of former vegans, whose health went down the toilet because they were buying into dogma instead of watching, listening, and actually seeing (and admitting to) what was happening to their poor emaciated bodies and their fuzzy thinking brains as 100% veganism resulted in so many nutrition deficiencies:
http://letthemeatmeat.com/
I hope you’ll pass the about site on to your million or so vegan friends in the U.S. so they’ll have another excellent source of information when the inevitable deficiencies hit and their physical and mental powers falter.
If there is ONE, just one, perfectly healthy and happy longtime 100% vegan, then I can do that as well.
The main reason I’m vegan is ETHICS, not health. I don’t seem to be any more or less healthy vegan than non-vegan. But what matters to me is the fact that upwards of 90% of ALL meat, milk and eggs comes from factory farms. Also, I have less of an issue with eating meat than with I do eating milk or eggs, because cow’s milk is for baby cows and hen’s eggs are hen’s periods. I don’t want to EVER be eating either.
But even if I start to feel unhealthy, then I would see a doctor- I wouldn’t just go back to eating animal products. I PLAN to be vegan my entire life, and I tell others around me to do the same.